Outer Joins in Report Model

Hi,
I already posted that in the MSDN technical forums... But I hope that here
are some other experts perhaps knowing what to do...
Just imagine you have two tables, i.e. customers and notes. You can have one
or more notes per customer. Your database has "clean" primary and foreing
keys defined for that scenario. You build a report model on it. The roles
are detected correctly, so there is a "optional many" cardinality on the one
side and a "one" cardinality on the other. However if you use this in a
report and grab the SQL using the SQL Profiler you'll see that an inner join
is used instead of an outer join (because you defined "OPTIONAL many" in the
model).
So what is this?
Please mark the correct answer:
( ) My fault (explain below)
( ) Bug
( ) Feature (explain below)
_______________________________________________________
Thanks ;-)
ThomasIt's pretty ambiguous whether an INNER JOIN or OUTER JOIN should be used,
without knowing the subject matter being reported.
Consider the case of a referral bonus report, where any employee can make a
referral. That's an optional condition, but you would only want those
employees who made the referral to appear. So there has to be some
discretion left to the report developer.
--
Cheers,
'(' Jeff A. Stucker
\
Senior Consultant
www.rapidigm.com
"Thomas Pagel" <thomas.pagel@.community.nospam> wrote in message
news:O4cMFut5FHA.2888@.tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Hi,
> I already posted that in the MSDN technical forums... But I hope that here
> are some other experts perhaps knowing what to do...
> Just imagine you have two tables, i.e. customers and notes. You can have
> one or more notes per customer. Your database has "clean" primary and
> foreing keys defined for that scenario. You build a report model on it.
> The roles are detected correctly, so there is a "optional many"
> cardinality on the one side and a "one" cardinality on the other. However
> if you use this in a report and grab the SQL using the SQL Profiler you'll
> see that an inner join is used instead of an outer join (because you
> defined "OPTIONAL many" in the model).
> So what is this?
> Please mark the correct answer:
> ( ) My fault (explain below)
> ( ) Bug
> ( ) Feature (explain below)
> _______________________________________________________
>
> Thanks ;-)
>
> Thomas
>|||Jeff,
but why do you have cardinality attributes like "optional many"? I think
that defines exactly what you want! And why isn't that used? And your case
would be handled by a simple filter...
Thanks,
Thomas
"Jeff A. Stucker" <jeff@.mobilize.net> wrote in message
news:%23sIqudv5FHA.1276@.TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> It's pretty ambiguous whether an INNER JOIN or OUTER JOIN should be used,
> without knowing the subject matter being reported.
> Consider the case of a referral bonus report, where any employee can make
> a referral. That's an optional condition, but you would only want those
> employees who made the referral to appear. So there has to be some
> discretion left to the report developer.
> --
> Cheers,
> '(' Jeff A. Stucker
> \
> Senior Consultant
> www.rapidigm.com
> "Thomas Pagel" <thomas.pagel@.community.nospam> wrote in message
> news:O4cMFut5FHA.2888@.tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> Hi,
>> I already posted that in the MSDN technical forums... But I hope that
>> here are some other experts perhaps knowing what to do...
>> Just imagine you have two tables, i.e. customers and notes. You can have
>> one or more notes per customer. Your database has "clean" primary and
>> foreing keys defined for that scenario. You build a report model on it.
>> The roles are detected correctly, so there is a "optional many"
>> cardinality on the one side and a "one" cardinality on the other. However
>> if you use this in a report and grab the SQL using the SQL Profiler
>> you'll see that an inner join is used instead of an outer join (because
>> you defined "OPTIONAL many" in the model).
>> So what is this?
>> Please mark the correct answer:
>> ( ) My fault (explain below)
>> ( ) Bug
>> ( ) Feature (explain below)
>> _______________________________________________________
>>
>> Thanks ;-)
>>
>> Thomas
>|||Hi Thomas,
Welcome to MSDN Managed Newsgorup!
I understood you concern is why inner join is used instead of outer join
since "optional many" defined. If I have misunderstood your concern, please
feel free to point it out.
Yes, I have tested it on my side and I believe this is a "by design"
feature of Report Model.
Sincerely yours,
Michael Cheng
Microsoft Online Partner Support
When responding to posts, please "Reply to Group" via your newsreader so
that others may learn and benefit from your issue.
=====================================================This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.|||Michael,
thanks for the reply... That's really bad news and I really don't understand
what the use of the cardinally attribute is if it's not used...
Thomas
"Michael Cheng [MSFT]" <v-mingqc@.online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:tu4xGR26FHA.1236@.TK2MSFTNGXA02.phx.gbl...
> Hi Thomas,
> Welcome to MSDN Managed Newsgorup!
> I understood you concern is why inner join is used instead of outer join
> since "optional many" defined. If I have misunderstood your concern,
> please
> feel free to point it out.
> Yes, I have tested it on my side and I believe this is a "by design"
> feature of Report Model.
>
> Sincerely yours,
> Michael Cheng
> Microsoft Online Partner Support
> When responding to posts, please "Reply to Group" via your newsreader so
> that others may learn and benefit from your issue.
> =====================================================> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights.
>|||Hi Thomas,
I have submit this to our development team via internal channel. If there
is any update, I will reply here.
You are also encouraged to submit this feeling to the MSDN Product Feedback
Center below
http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/productfeedback/default.aspx
Thanks so much for your feedback and question.
Sincerely yours,
Michael Cheng
Microsoft Online Partner Support
When responding to posts, please "Reply to Group" via your newsreader so
that others may learn and benefit from your issue.
=====================================================This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

Outer Join Problem

Because we have a lot of different kinds of data that we track, the system that I use uses an Entity-Attribute-Value data model. (Think of the entity id being the row, the attribute id being the column, and the value being a cell value.)

I want to be able to get all the values for an entity in one select. Unfortunately, most can be null, in which case we don't store a row for that value at all in the values table. So I'd like to get everything with an outer join. Unfortunately, that doesn't work very well.

This SQL behaves like you'd expect.

SELECT Event.Event_ID, String_Value.Value, String_Value.Attribute_ID

FROM Event LEFT OUTER JOIN

String_Value ON Event.Event_ID = String_Value.Event_ID

WHERE (Event.Event_ID = 35632)

(It returns 1 row.)

If I add a constraint to the String_Value table, all of a sudden, no rows get returned.

SELECT Event.Event_ID, String_Value.Value, String_Value.Attribute_ID

FROM Event LEFT OUTER JOIN

String_Value ON Event.Event_ID = String_Value.Event_ID

WHERE (Event.Event_ID = 35632) AND (String_Value.Attribute_ID = 69)

How can I revise this to always get the Event ID, but only get string values where the Attribute ID is 69? (This is extremely simplified. What I really want to do involves 7 left outer joins.)

I could do this using a temp table, doing updates for each value, but I'd like to keep things simple, if possible.

Try this

SELECT Event.Event_ID, String_Value.Value, String_Value.Attribute_ID

FROM Event LEFT OUTER JOIN

String_Value ON Event.Event_ID = String_Value.Event_ID
AND (String_Value.Attribute_ID = 69)

WHERE (Event.Event_ID = 35632)

Denis the SQL Menace

http://sqlservercode.blogspot.com/

|||

Criteria on the WHERE clause have to be true for the data set, criteria on the JOIN condition only have to be true when rows exist on the join table.

Thats why you should put your criteria on the join clause

Outer Join across many-to-many table ?

Given the following data model...
Table a (id int PK)
Table b (id int PK)
Table aXb (a.id int FK, b.id int FK, UNIQUE(a.id, b.id)
Scenario: "b" essentially represents a table of picklist data. I want to join "a" to "b" in such a way that I get all rows in "b"
for each unique row in "a" (typically done with an outer join when "b" has a FK to "a").
I tried this...
SELECT * FROM a
INNER JOIN aXb ON a.id = aXb.a.id
LEFT OUTER JOIN b ON aXb.b.id = b.id
WHERE a.id = 1
...but it isn't giving me what I want.
Can this be done?
Thanks,
ChrisG
See if this is what you want:
SELECT A.id, B.id
FROM A, B
WHERE A.id = 1
David Portas
SQL Server MVP
|||I think the first join should be the outer join. If there are no pick
records for a client (I'm guessing that's what a is), there will be no
record for them in aXb, and no record in the result. Actually, I think
you need the outer join for both joins.
(That seems really odd and/or dangerous to me that you have periods in
the field names a.id, b.id in aXb. I guess those aren't the real names)
Or maybe you could use a subquery with one outer join:
SELECT * FROM a
LEFT OUTER JOIN
(Select * From aXb INNER JOIN b ON aXb.b.id = b.id As PICK)
ON a.id = PICK.a.id
WHERE a.id = 1
|||or maybe:
SELECT *
FROM A
CROSS JOIN B
LEFT JOIN AXB
ON A.id = AXB.a_id
AND B.id = AXB.b_id
WHERE A.id = 1
David Portas
SQL Server MVP
|||Wouldn't that result just be a bunch of 1's with all the id's from b
(assuming 1 is in a)? You need aXb to limit the pick records for a.id=1.
|||"Jerry Porter" <jerryp@.personablepc.com> wrote in message news:1110302991.330487.242630@.z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
|I think the first join should be the outer join. If there are no pick
| records for a client (I'm guessing that's what a is), there will be no
| record for them in aXb, and no record in the result. Actually, I think
| you need the outer join for both joins.
|
| (That seems really odd and/or dangerous to me that you have periods in
| the field names a.id, b.id in aXb. I guess those aren't the real names)
That's pseudo-sql ;-)
| Or maybe you could use a subquery with one outer join:
| SELECT * FROM a
| LEFT OUTER JOIN
| (Select * From aXb INNER JOIN b ON aXb.b.id = b.id As PICK)
| ON a.id = PICK.a.id
| WHERE a.id = 1
Sorry, that didn't work.
Thanks, tho.
ChrisG
|||"David Portas" <REMOVE_BEFORE_REPLYING_dportas@.acm.org> wrote in message
news:1110303093.154839.269330@.l41g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
| or maybe:
|
| SELECT *
| FROM A
| CROSS JOIN B
| LEFT JOIN AXB
| ON A.id = AXB.a_id
| AND B.id = AXB.b_id
| WHERE A.id = 1
|
| --
| David Portas
| SQL Server MVP
Both of your suggestions worked as I asked. (I didn't ask the right question, tho). I was hoping to see a null in the "aXb" join so
I knew which rows in "b" linked to the row in "a". All the columns in the "aXb" join are returning NULL
I'll take off my obtuse hat and try to better state what I'm looking for.
"a" = Users
"b" = Roles
"aXb" = UsersXRoles
I'm looking to create a view that shows each user and all the roles they can be assigned to. I was hoping to alias a column of the
UsersXRoles table to indicate assignment, i.e.,
User Roles Assigned
UserA Group1 Yes
UserA Group2 No
UserA Group3 Yes
UserB Group1 No
UserB Group2 No
UserB Group3 Yes
etc.
I'm open to any suggestions. I'd like to stick with the existing data model (described in the op) if possible.
Thanks,
ChrisG
|||"David Portas" <REMOVE_BEFORE_REPLYING_dportas@.acm.org> wrote in message
news:1110303093.154839.269330@.l41g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
| or maybe:
|
| SELECT *
| FROM A
| CROSS JOIN B
| LEFT JOIN AXB
| ON A.id = AXB.a_id
| AND B.id = AXB.b_id
| WHERE A.id = 1
|
| --
| David Portas
| SQL Server MVP
Just wanted to followup and state that this query works exactly as I *need* it to. I just wasn't paying close attention when I was
cutting, pasting and editing from all my trial scripts.
Thanks David P.
ChrisG

Outer Join across many-to-many table ?

Given the following data model...
Table a (id int PK)
Table b (id int PK)
Table aXb (a.id int FK, b.id int FK, UNIQUE(a.id, b.id)
Scenario: "b" essentially represents a table of picklist data. I want to join "a" to "b" in such a way that I get all rows in "b"
for each unique row in "a" (typically done with an outer join when "b" has a FK to "a").
I tried this...
SELECT * FROM a
INNER JOIN aXb ON a.id = aXb.a.id
LEFT OUTER JOIN b ON aXb.b.id = b.id
WHERE a.id = 1
...but it isn't giving me what I want.
Can this be done?
Thanks,
ChrisGSee if this is what you want:
SELECT A.id, B.id
FROM A, B
WHERE A.id = 1
--
David Portas
SQL Server MVP
--|||I think the first join should be the outer join. If there are no pick
records for a client (I'm guessing that's what a is), there will be no
record for them in aXb, and no record in the result. Actually, I think
you need the outer join for both joins.
(That seems really odd and/or dangerous to me that you have periods in
the field names a.id, b.id in aXb. I guess those aren't the real names)
Or maybe you could use a subquery with one outer join:
SELECT * FROM a
LEFT OUTER JOIN
(Select * From aXb INNER JOIN b ON aXb.b.id = b.id As PICK)
ON a.id = PICK.a.id
WHERE a.id = 1|||or maybe:
SELECT *
FROM A
CROSS JOIN B
LEFT JOIN AXB
ON A.id = AXB.a_id
AND B.id = AXB.b_id
WHERE A.id = 1
--
David Portas
SQL Server MVP
--|||Wouldn't that result just be a bunch of 1's with all the id's from b
(assuming 1 is in a)? You need aXb to limit the pick records for a.id=1.|||"Jerry Porter" <jerryp@.personablepc.com> wrote in message news:1110302991.330487.242630@.z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
|I think the first join should be the outer join. If there are no pick
| records for a client (I'm guessing that's what a is), there will be no
| record for them in aXb, and no record in the result. Actually, I think
| you need the outer join for both joins.
|
| (That seems really odd and/or dangerous to me that you have periods in
| the field names a.id, b.id in aXb. I guess those aren't the real names)
That's pseudo-sql ;-)
| Or maybe you could use a subquery with one outer join:
| SELECT * FROM a
| LEFT OUTER JOIN
| (Select * From aXb INNER JOIN b ON aXb.b.id = b.id As PICK)
| ON a.id = PICK.a.id
| WHERE a.id = 1
Sorry, that didn't work.
Thanks, tho.
ChrisG|||"David Portas" <REMOVE_BEFORE_REPLYING_dportas@.acm.org> wrote in message
news:1110303093.154839.269330@.l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
| or maybe:
|
| SELECT *
| FROM A
| CROSS JOIN B
| LEFT JOIN AXB
| ON A.id = AXB.a_id
| AND B.id = AXB.b_id
| WHERE A.id = 1
|
| --
| David Portas
| SQL Server MVP
Both of your suggestions worked as I asked. (I didn't ask the right question, tho). I was hoping to see a null in the "aXb" join so
I knew which rows in "b" linked to the row in "a". All the columns in the "aXb" join are returning NULL
I'll take off my obtuse hat and try to better state what I'm looking for.
"a" = Users
"b" = Roles
"aXb" = UsersXRoles
I'm looking to create a view that shows each user and all the roles they can be assigned to. I was hoping to alias a column of the
UsersXRoles table to indicate assignment, i.e.,
User Roles Assigned
---
UserA Group1 Yes
UserA Group2 No
UserA Group3 Yes
UserB Group1 No
UserB Group2 No
UserB Group3 Yes
etc.
I'm open to any suggestions. I'd like to stick with the existing data model (described in the op) if possible.
Thanks,
ChrisG|||"David Portas" <REMOVE_BEFORE_REPLYING_dportas@.acm.org> wrote in message
news:1110303093.154839.269330@.l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
| or maybe:
|
| SELECT *
| FROM A
| CROSS JOIN B
| LEFT JOIN AXB
| ON A.id = AXB.a_id
| AND B.id = AXB.b_id
| WHERE A.id = 1
|
| --
| David Portas
| SQL Server MVP
Just wanted to followup and state that this query works exactly as I *need* it to. I just wasn't paying close attention when I was
cutting, pasting and editing from all my trial scripts.
Thanks David P.
ChrisG

Outer Join across many-to-many table ?

Given the following data model...
Table a (id int PK)
Table b (id int PK)
Table aXb (a.id int FK, b.id int FK, UNIQUE(a.id, b.id)
Scenario: "b" essentially represents a table of picklist data. I want to joi
n "a" to "b" in such a way that I get all rows in "b"
for each unique row in "a" (typically done with an outer join when "b" has a
FK to "a").
I tried this...
SELECT * FROM a
INNER JOIN aXb ON a.id = aXb.a.id
LEFT OUTER JOIN b ON aXb.b.id = b.id
WHERE a.id = 1
...but it isn't giving me what I want.
Can this be done?
Thanks,
ChrisGSee if this is what you want:
SELECT A.id, B.id
FROM A, B
WHERE A.id = 1
David Portas
SQL Server MVP
--|||I think the first join should be the outer join. If there are no pick
records for a client (I'm guessing that's what a is), there will be no
record for them in aXb, and no record in the result. Actually, I think
you need the outer join for both joins.
(That seems really odd and/or dangerous to me that you have periods in
the field names a.id, b.id in aXb. I guess those aren't the real names)
Or maybe you could use a subquery with one outer join:
SELECT * FROM a
LEFT OUTER JOIN
(Select * From aXb INNER JOIN b ON aXb.b.id = b.id As PICK)
ON a.id = PICK.a.id
WHERE a.id = 1|||or maybe:
SELECT *
FROM A
CROSS JOIN B
LEFT JOIN AXB
ON A.id = AXB.a_id
AND B.id = AXB.b_id
WHERE A.id = 1
David Portas
SQL Server MVP
--|||Wouldn't that result just be a bunch of 1's with all the id's from b
(assuming 1 is in a)? You need aXb to limit the pick records for a.id=1.|||"Jerry Porter" <jerryp@.personablepc.com> wrote in message news:1110302991.33
0487.242630@.z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
|I think the first join should be the outer join. If there are no pick
| records for a client (I'm guessing that's what a is), there will be no
| record for them in aXb, and no record in the result. Actually, I think
| you need the outer join for both joins.
|
| (That seems really odd and/or dangerous to me that you have periods in
| the field names a.id, b.id in aXb. I guess those aren't the real names)
That's pseudo-sql ;-)
| Or maybe you could use a subquery with one outer join:
| SELECT * FROM a
| LEFT OUTER JOIN
| (Select * From aXb INNER JOIN b ON aXb.b.id = b.id As PICK)
| ON a.id = PICK.a.id
| WHERE a.id = 1
Sorry, that didn't work.
Thanks, tho.
ChrisG|||"David Portas" <REMOVE_BEFORE_REPLYING_dportas@.acm.org> wrote in message
news:1110303093.154839.269330@.l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
| or maybe:
|
| SELECT *
| FROM A
| CROSS JOIN B
| LEFT JOIN AXB
| ON A.id = AXB.a_id
| AND B.id = AXB.b_id
| WHERE A.id = 1
|
| --
| David Portas
| SQL Server MVP
Both of your suggestions worked as I asked. (I didn't ask the right question
, tho). I was hoping to see a null in the "aXb" join so
I knew which rows in "b" linked to the row in "a". All the columns in the "a
Xb" join are returning NULL
I'll take off my obtuse hat and try to better state what I'm looking for.
"a" = Users
"b" = Roles
"aXb" = UsersXRoles
I'm looking to create a view that shows each user and all the roles they can
be assigned to. I was hoping to alias a column of the
UsersXRoles table to indicate assignment, i.e.,
User Roles Assigned
---
UserA Group1 Yes
UserA Group2 No
UserA Group3 Yes
UserB Group1 No
UserB Group2 No
UserB Group3 Yes
etc.
I'm open to any suggestions. I'd like to stick with the existing data model
(described in the op) if possible.
Thanks,
ChrisG|||"David Portas" <REMOVE_BEFORE_REPLYING_dportas@.acm.org> wrote in message
news:1110303093.154839.269330@.l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
| or maybe:
|
| SELECT *
| FROM A
| CROSS JOIN B
| LEFT JOIN AXB
| ON A.id = AXB.a_id
| AND B.id = AXB.b_id
| WHERE A.id = 1
|
| --
| David Portas
| SQL Server MVP
Just wanted to followup and state that this query works exactly as I *need*
it to. I just wasn't paying close attention when I was
cutting, pasting and editing from all my trial scripts.
Thanks David P.
ChrisG

OUTER JOIN

Oi! What follows is a hypothetical situation, but it is a totally analogous to a real problem Im having, but provides an easier model to understand.

Imagine that you have database-driven battleship game and its time to render the board. Also imagine that you have to render more than one board and that the ships are all the size of one point on the grid.

One sql result you need is a list of all the points on the grid, regardless of whether or not there is a ship on it. This will make rendering much easier for you, because you can simply look at the record index to determine if a ship is present. The data that is stored about the position of the ships consists of one record containing the grid index and ship name.

One possible way to retrieve this data is to build a table that you will not change which contains a record for each point on the grid. Is it possible to union or join on this table to retrieve a list of results that contain both unoccupied locations and occupied ones?

Here is what I've come up with, but it contains results that have a null location when there are no ship records:

SELECT
Grids.GridID,
Ships.GridLocation,
Ships.Name
FROM
Grids
FULL OUTER JOIN Ships
ON Ships.GridID = Grids.GridID
WHERE
Grids.PlayerID = 1
UNION-- (**not** UNION ALL)
SELECT
Grids.GridID,
GridLocations.GridLocation,
(SELECT ShipName FROM Ships WHERE GridID = Grids.GridID AND GridLocation = GridLocations.GridLocation)
FROM
GridLocations, Grids
WHERE
Grids.PlayerID = 1

In the first sql statement, why not just do a left join? That will select everything from the grid, and then the ship info if it is there.|||Something about Ships to Grids and GridLocations to Ships is preventing this from happening as you would expect:

SELECT
Grids.GridID,
Ships.GridLocation,
Ships.Name
FROM
Grids
FULL OUTER JOIN Ships
ON Ships.GridID = Grids.GridID
LEFT JOIN GridLocations
ON GridLocations.GridLocation = Ships.GridLocation
WHERE
Grids.PlayerID = 1

this would return a list of ships if there are any, and if not, a list of grids!
(In this silly scenario, there can be multiple grids with PlayerID = 1|||I meant something like this:

SELECT
Grids.GridID,
Ships.GridLocation,
Ships.Name
FROM
Grids
LEFT JOIN Ships
ON Grids.GridID = Ships.GridID
WHERE
Grids.PlayerID = 1

It's hard to tell since I don't have any data to work with to simulate. :)|||Hmm

This would result in only a list of grids, or a list of ships and grids. Like if there were 4 ships scattered in 2 grids:

GridID GridLocation Name
-----------
1 1 MyShip1
1 24 MyShip2
2 18 MyShip3
2 20 MyShip4

However, what I want is a list of all grid locations on all grids:

GridID GridLocation Name
-----------
1 1 MyShip1
1 2 NULL
1 3 NULL
1 4 NULL
1 5 NULL
1 6 NULL
1 7 NULL
...
2 1 NULL
2 2 NULL
2 3 NULL
2 4 NULL
2 5 NULL
2 6 NULL
2 7 NULL|||You need to post some DDL with some sample data, otherwise my guessing won't help.

Out of Memory Exception

I'm getting an out of memory exception when designing by report model and
selecting save. I'm using 64bit windows xp 4Gb Ram and two dual core xeons
so presumably this is a bug! Anyone have any ideas?Hello Phil,
I would like to know whether there is any related error in the Report Log
File.
Would you please try to check the Report log File and post the error here
for me to troubleshooting?
By default, the log file is located at \Microsoft SQL Server\<SQL Server
Instance>\Reporting Services\LogFiles.
Please let me know the resault. Thank you!
Sincerely,
Wei Lu
Microsoft Online Community Support
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==================================================(This posting is provided "AS IS", with no warranties, and confers no
rights.)|||Hi Phil,
How is everything going? Please feel free to let me know if you need any
assistance.
Sincerely,
Wei Lu
Microsoft Online Community Supportsql